A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself- Ezekiel 18:20
There are basically three kinds of thinking.
First, there’s good or wise thinking. Good or wise thinking is aligned with what the Bible teaches. Learning to think biblically does not mean life will always be easy or free of trials (2nd Corinthians 4:17-18, James 1:2, 1stPeter 1:6-7). However, biblical thinking coupled with relationship with God ultimately leads to peace with God and eternity spent with God (Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 5:1, Romans 12:2).
There’s also bad or worldly thinking. Bad thinking is not always obviously erroneous. Bad thinking is bad because it is not aligned with the Bible and so it’s off, it’s worldly and therefore lacking in wisdom (Colossians 2:8, Philippians 3:19). This is the kind of thinking Christians end up with when they lean on their own understanding of how to do life rather than God’s (Proverbs 3:5-6). Bad or worldly thinking will not always completely ruin a person’s life, but it will lead them in a less than godly direction and ensure they never quite live up to their God-given potential.
The final category of thinking is what I call “pit-of-hell” thinking. This type of thinking is literally, and I do mean literally, straight out of the pit of hell. The New Testament refers to it a: “doctrine of demons” (1st Timothy 4:1). Pit-of-hell thinking always has a demonic component to it that makes it very deceptive. Indulging in this kind of thinking ultimately causes an individual to become derailed spiritually, emotionally and morally.
There’s no scarcity of pit-of-hell thinking in the world today.
One wildly popular and sinister example of such thinking is a notion that originated with Sigmund Freud (1873-1939). Freud taught that individuals could trace all of their bad behavior, emotional problems and wrong thinking back to something their parents did or did not do to them in childhood. If an adult lacks self-confidence, can’t stand up for themselves, has a tough time making decisions, is angry, hates sex, is addicted to sex, can’t maintain a long-term relationship, allows themselves to be abused, is codependent, drinks too much, uses drugs or is a narcissistic jerk, it is all the fault of that individual’s parents, usually the mom. It is true that we are all influenced by our childhood experiences. Bad parenting is bad, partly because it has a generational impact (Lamentations 5:7). That said, if parents were responsible for all our sin God would have sent us a therapist rather than a savior (Acts 4:12).
Following are the top four problems with this thinking:
It prevents individuals from dealing with their problems and sin-
The first step in dealing with a problem or sin is to take personal responsibility for that sin and/or owning our part of the problem (Proverbs 28:13, James 5:16, Psalm 32:3). It is impossible to take responsibility, effectively confess a sin or repent of something that we are blaming our parents for. Conversely, when we take full responsibility for our sin, God forgives that sin and gives us the wisdom we need to move forward in a victorious way that breaks generational curses and sets us free from the bondage of sinful strongholds (Psalm 32:5, Psalm 51, 1st John 1:8-9).
It leads folks to believe it’s okay to break the fifth commandment-
Believing the lie that their mom and dad are ultimately responsible for our misery and sin leads us to believe that it’s okay to disrespect or dishonor our parents. This line of thinking is in direct violation to the fifth commandment (Exodus 20:12). This commandment is clear, unambiguous and repeated many times throughout the Old and New Testaments (Deuteronomy 5:16, Matthew 14:4, Matthew 19:16-20, Mark 7:10, Ephesians 6:2). It is one of the clearest teachings in all the Bible. God was so serious about this commandment there is blessing promised for keeping it and curses attached to breaking it (including a death penalty). Furthermore, nowhere in the Bible are we given a loophole when it comes to honoring/respecting our parents. It is impossible to honor or respect someone who you blame for all your problems and bad choices.
It’s at the root of the estrangement epidemic-
Children cutting their parents out is now a popular trend. Typically, the parents were not abusive just “toxic”. Toxicity is frequently defined as “not being supportive enough” or “not in tune to the child’s needs”. The bottom-line is that these kids have bought into the lie that all of their problems and issues are the fault of their parents rather than the result of their own choices. This view is at the root of incalculable misery and hurt. No one wins in an estrangement. The parents are left devastated, and the adult child never really grows up and takes responsibility for their own behavior (Ezekial 18)
It’s not biblical–
It’s just not. There is not a single Bible verse that indicates that anyone is responsible for our choices or sin except us. Period. People are not soulless automatons preprogrammed by childhood experiences. We are influenced by the experiences we have growing up but ultimately each one of us chooses how we respond to what we experienced.
All parents are sinners, therefore they all make mistakes. Some even sin against their children (Romans 3:23). This does not make abuse okay or excusable (Romans 3:19). Parents who abuse their children will be held accountable for their sin (Ezekiel 18:4, Matthew 18:6, Romans 14:12). That said, no one is responsible for our adult choices except us and taking responsibility for our own junk is the first step in making a better future for ourselves.
I don’t agree with all of this.
Absolutely it’s natural man thinking, and very tempting, to just blame someone, as in, therefore we don’t take responsibility for our own choices.
And absolutely, thinking that is deceptive is evil–and that’s why there actually is only a set of two opposites–stuff that comes from God, and stuff that doesn’t come from God (and the thing is that anything that doesn’t come from God does, by definition, come from the devil, including the thinking that isn’t wise–it’s another example of it being deceptive for the devil to get us to think that simply because it isn’t from God, it’s not necessarily from him either; any thinking that isn’t wise thinking, which is from God, is from His enemy who entices us with all the different categories and variations and invented sources for some ideas).
And the simplicity of how things really are is why, also, behavior doesn’t have to “be abusive” for it to be wrong and for children to know it’s wrong and for them to be unwilling for it to continue for themselves or their own children, if they experienced it from their parents. Treatment from parents is either of God, or it isn’t of God. That’s it. And we don’t need to have anyone, whether they were or are abusive or not, or whether their ungodly treatment was intentional or less intentional (which would be neglect, and is what you’re seeking to differentiate from abuse and try to say people shouldn’t avoid or decry, because it isn’t abuse) or unintentional, arguing that treatment that isn’t godly should be allowed, at the deepest foundation. Yes, we all fail to know sometimes what is godly behavior, and yes, we all fail to do godly behavior, and as you say, that’s why we need and have a Savior.
But it makes perfect sense, no matter how inconvenient or causing sadness to people who have behaved ungodly, for someone who has received ungodly treatment from another person, whether the person intended to treat them godly or ungodly, or wasn’t intentional in any way, to distance themselves from that person, whether they distance simply because of the pain that it’s perfectly sensible for them to want to avoid or prevent, or because they actually want to be intentionally godly and it’s perfectly sensible for a godly person to distance from anyone who isn’t godly.
And so any child who has received ungodly treatment can be expected to estrange from someone who has given it to them, especially repeatedly, especially if they have been asked to stop and do things differently and won’t. And anyone who treats anyone else ungodly no matter who either party or for what reason, can expect that they might experience distance and estrangement from the person they treated that way, whether it was intentional or not.
Yes, there can’t be confounding of the fact that just because someone treats us badly and we rightly stop interactions with them and also as necessary are truthful about assigning responsibility and fault for that being the case to the person who has done so, that doesn’t mean we should say that everything we do that is a choice of our own to intentionally treat someone badly is really the fault of the person who treated us badly (although unintentional ungodly treatment by a person, though still their own fault if they could choose differently, may well be, and would in this case appropriately be assigned as, stemming from the ungodly treatment someone else gave them). But a person distancing or estranging from someone who has treated them ungodly also can’t be confounded with them “treating that person ungodly”–it doesn’t follow that if a parent has given their child ungodly treatment, whether they meant to or not, and then the child distances, that that means the child is now treating the parent ungodly.
If Jesus, perfect that He was, had lived with parents who were neglectful or abusive, and then said that in order to honor and respect His parents He had to stay with and be in touch with them–or, which might be the same thing, He had to do what they wanted, including and specifically if they wanted Him to stay with them and be in touch–would it have been wise, godly thinking and perfect godly behavior for Him to do what they wanted or to “be honoring” in that way? No, it would have been foolish…which is ungodly.
Jesus actually had parents who, though they were imperfect, largely, I’m sure, treated Him godly, and when they didn’t, He could tell when they didn’t mean to be ungodly. But even at that, Jesus made the emphasis clear to people that “His mother” was to be a role that belonged to people who did act godly, and wasn’t just to be something an entitled person could claim to, no matter what the biology. And though it wasn’t His parents, when His hometown full of people who started out hailing Him coming back to visit as ready to socialize with Him and accept Him, actually turned on Him with ungodly treatment at His truthful declaration of being the Christ–abd actually, specifically had beef with Him for not, in their minds, being sufficiently honoring–He did not do miracles there or stay with them, but left and never went back, and they lost our on seeing and experiencing what they could have with Him if they had treated Him godly and not been deceived about their claims on being honored and respected.
That said, it’s also not accurate to say that it’s *impossible* to respect or honor someone who you blame for all your bad choices–that is, Satan doesn’t honor God in his attempts to blame God for his downfall–but a person who truthfully must lay responsibility for an ungodly choice at the door of someone other than himself or herself–for instance, if a person was doing their best to act godly but didn’t know that action was ungodly (the fact remains that the action was ungodly no matter that the person didn’t know, but who is to be responsible for the fact that the person didn’t know? Not always the person who didn’t know)–if that person acts ungodly and it’s true that someone else is responsible, it is still possible, as I can testify personally, for the person who didn’t know and acted ungodly to honor and have respect for even the person whose responsibility it is that they didn’t know and so acted ungodly. Because honoring or respecting can’t be confounded with the fact of someone who “should be honored and respected” always being worthy of honor or respect, or with the fact of also truthfully assigning responsibility by the same person who is honoring and respecting…the same person to whom responsibility is assigned! Or probably some other facts. And precisely as many people who have been treated ungodly relearn very pointedly and need to practice as much as anyone, the task is to honor and respect while also, as necessary, “blaming the person they honor and respect” for ungodly treatment in specific instances–because a person who acts ungodly in one or many instances rarely does nothing worthy of honor and respect at all. But honor and respect is something no one can demand they receive from someone else, they can only merit it in case it comes.
Thanks for your thoughts, and I would imagine, not being familiar with your blog, that you may be someone who has experienced a child of yours incorrectly treating you ungodly–and they very well may be and likely are truthfully to be blamed or assigned responsibility for that. But I am someone who has had a parent treat me ungodly, and I have to work to give credit where it’s due, both positive and negative, and know that when my parents wish it were true that I should not distance from them no matter how they treat me, or ever assign responsibility to them for their treatment, or some of my actions including distancing from them, that doesn’t automatically mean that I am not honoring or respecting them, and that it’s not true that I shouldn’t distance from their ungodly behavior.
Hi Katherine, thank you for taking the time to comment. I always appreciate readers who share their thoughts. After reading your comment I do have some questions. I was curious about godly versus ungodly behavior. Is there a place in Scripture where there is a list of ungodly behavior as it relates to parenting? I was also wondering, if there is no list… Who decides what is godly? For example a child may feel that a parent who tells them “no” is super ungodly while the parent may feel telling the child “no” is a safety issue. In those cases who decides what’s right? This why I personally feel it’s important to take our cues from Scripture about right and wrong. When we don’t use Scripture as a standard we all kind of do our own thing and a lot of people get hurt (Judges 21:25). My second question is about grace and mercy. Where does that come into play? the Bible says that we are to be like God (Matthew 5:48). It also says that God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve (Psalm 103:10). I definitely got the impression from your comment that if a someone decides someone else has done something ungodly they should be punished for their ungodliness. I’m very grateful God does not break off relationship with me for messing up or being stubborn about my sin. If He was we would have parted ways long ago, instead He has been very patient with me. In return He expects me to be patient with others (Matthew 18:21-35). And finally, where does forgiveness come in? Jesus taught that if we refuse to forgive God will refuse to for us (Matthew 6:15). Have we really forgiven if we refuse to have a relationship with someone? God bless Katherine! I hope you will continue reading my blog it is all about living a godly life that pleases God.
Hi Lisa,
Yes, godly behavior for anyone, parent or otherwise, is what is listed in the Sermon on the Mount and in all of scripture–how we are to act generally. Parents who are doing their parenting job in a loving and kind and Christlike way are acting godly whatever their children think–but parents of children who are estranged from those parents, whether the children can always articulate it, or consider themselves Christian or not (having an understanding and vocabulary around calling ungodly behavior ungodly behavior), have very often had their children do the sensible thing and distance etc. because, as my first comment said, it also “happens to” be quite sensible according to acting Christlike, to do what a person can be expected to do when they have been repeatedly hurt and not treated in a godly way–their actions of estranging are because those parents are not acting Christlike and it is not required that we put ourselves in dangerous places and with ungodly people just because they might do it accidentally, or because they are in a certain relationship to us, or because we think as well of them as we can.
Ed Rush’s book God Talks puts the explanation of forgiveness very well (many people get forgiveness as a concept confounded with other concepts that aren’t forgiveness and many people who do understand forgiveness don’t manage to explain it in words that very many people correctly understand). I recommend reading it, it’s a pretty quick read, and his comments on forgiveness are nearer the end of the book. It’s actually been sad over my life how many people and books I’ve seen and heard over my life who have forgiveness wrong. Again, with the right definition of forgiveness, we can see that we can easily forgive and thus be forgiven by God without having the best relationship, or any relationship much at all, with someone, if it’s not wise or possible. It’s the same conversation if we are talking about being patient etc.–being patient doesn’t mean being intimately involved, though it also doesn’t mean being angry or mean etc.–people mix all these things up a lot.
Telling children no is very godly. God tells us no whenever He needs to and parents are to do the same. Being bad examples to children is not godly; persecuting children is not godly; refusing to be humble and try to repair a relationship with one’s children when one has hurt them is not godly; hating one’s children is not godly. And so on, there’s worse. We all have to study the Sermon on the Mount constantly and it’s probably more important for parents to do so in relation to their own children than it is important for anyone else to do so in relation to any other kind of relationship with anyone–and a child who is doing their best to live like Christ toward a parent who is living the very opposite of Christ toward that child will, like Jesus did, leave and stay away when it’s time to do so, as my first comment said, when nothing more will come of spending time near or trying to be in close relationship with that parent unless change is seen. Jesus sending out the apostles and Seventy reemphasized that they should spend their time with those who would receive them, and leave and not spend the time belaboring the moment with those who wouldn’t receive them. I know what it’s like to be in that situation with my parents, where my dad told me, six months ago, that he doesn’t want to be around people like me, when I had just done my best to spend a good memorable day with him and it had gone well, and that he understands why people don’t like the prophets in the scriptures, as to him he feels he can see by reading scripture that the righteous people talked about in scripture are insufferable, and he actually understands why people kill the prophets and want to. And this is after 35 years of knowing my dad and continuing to be in the best relationship with him I can, and knowing after many such incidents that I have to limit my interactions with him no matter that he interprets it as my being a problem and an ungrateful child, for me to have a feeling of safety etc., because it’s the very fact of my trying to be a Christian that is what makes him not like me etc. And given that I have to know that nothing he might do in the future can surprise me anymore because he’s gotten worse over the years, if the day comes that he actually threatens me (at least more than he and my mom used to when I was a minor and couldn’t leave etc.) it will be wise and godly to do like David running from Saul, Israel leaving Egypt, Baby Jesus escaping from Herod…rather than to stay and try to…what?…make him “happy” by…what?… doing nothing but pleasing him constantly, when nothing makes him happy, and he will not treat me well, and his wishes that he wishes I would cater to change by the half hour…and all the other things that a person who doesn’t have the Spirit with them displays. And my dad has always been the kinder of my two parents. To forgive them means I wish them well and wish they could have better than is really possible for them given their continued choices, and I don’t seek revenge, and I leave them to God, and even still know that if they do change, things could get better between us and their other children, and hope that could happen; but it doesn’t mean “having the cozy and fluffy relationship that they want and imagine is possible” and that others think is meant by being forgiving, and to be like Christ means to pray for them and feel well-disposed toward them without exposing myself to them, and so on.
Erika Kirk forgiving her husband’s shooter meant she did move on with her own life and not spend all her time trying to make his life worse, and it meant she lets his consequences be taken care of in the appropriate law and order way, and it meant she didn’t ravage the countryside and burn down towns of people who thought the same as the shooter (unlike the way some people literally carry on)–but her forgiving him didn’t mean she doesn’t know that it’s required that he face consequences for what he did, and it doesn’t mean that, even if she chooses to speak to him or give him gifts or make a way for him to get or do some particular thing, that she must invite him to her Christmas parties and live next door to him and otherwise act like they “have a good relationship,” as too many people try to demand that others do if they are to be forgiving.